Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Posted: 20 Aug 2009 11:10 AM PDT
The most recent sales numbers for the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin shows a total of 80,700 coins sold. This marks an increase of nearly ten thousand coins over the course of the past three weeks.

The frenzied pace of sales began after the US Mint raised the ordering limit from one coin per household to ten coins per household. I previously examined some other contributing factors to the increase in sales, but missed one of the big ones. Ever since the limit was raised, many coin dealers have been using this as an opportunity to build significant inventories of the 2009 UHR Double Eagle.

This morning on Coin Update News, I posted an article and brief interview with Bob Lecce, the biggest on buyer of 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagles. The full article is republished here for Mint News Blog readers.


Dealer Interview: Robert B. Lecce on 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagles

With the order limit for the US Mint�s 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle recently increased from one coin per household to ten, many dealers have taken the opportunity to build a significant inventory of the coins. This was very apparent at the ANA World�s Fair of Money when the US Mint�s booth was swamped with customers buying the coins ten at a time.

Supporting the steady stream of buyers were a number of dealers willing to pay instant premiums on coins purchased from the Mint and immediately resold. The coins were available at the US Mint�s booth for $1,289 and dealers were repurchasing the coins for $1,310 to $1,350 each. Assuming the maximum premium, an attendee could have earned a $610 bounty for purchasing and immediately reselling ten coins.

There were at least two dealers who purchased about 200 coins each, but the largest buyer was Bob Lecce of Robert B. Lecce Numismatist Inc. (http://rareusgold.com) who purchased more than 500 coins. Bob was willing to answer a few questions about his purchase.

Since the US Mint raised the order limit, total sales of the UHR Double Eagle have risen from about 71,000 to more than 80,000 in the past three weeks. The more coins the US Mint sells, the higher the final mintage of the coin will be. How do you think a higher mintage will impact the long term potential of the coins?

Bob: I believe the final mintage will not exceed 120,000 coins. This is still a relatively low mintage for what I believe is the most popular and beautiful Modern coin the US Mint has produced to date. The mintage could be much lower if the Mint begins to produce Bullion Gold and Proof Gold Eagles for 2009. Time is running out for the production of 2009 coins. Any time now the Mint could increase the price to $1339 if the average price of Gold remains above $950 for a week based on their newly adopted pricing schedule. I strongly believe the price of Gold will be much higher through 2009 and continue into 2010 and insure a higher base value for these little gems.

I feel an additional 20,000 or 30,000 coins will not impact the long term potential of the UHR's. These coins are popular world wide. We are exporting many of the to Germany, China, and Japan.

What are your immediate and long term plans for the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagles that you purchased at the World�s Fair of Money?

Bob: I plan to continue creating a two way market in these for the near and long term. These coins are an excellent value now with MS69's trading at $1375-$1400 and MS70's at $1700-$1750.

Do you plan to continue acquiring more UHR Double Eagles before the end of the year?

Bob: I have continued to restock and be the strongest buyer in this market. I plan to increase my position to over 2,000 coins for a major marketing plan that I am developing.

was email.... don't have linkey:5_1_120:

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Long term potential on these coins was destroyed a long time ago.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Yeah. I agree. It's why I haven't picked one up. NICE coin though!

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

WTF....


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:SS:US:1123

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Here is a perfect example of:

Do the research
BE RIGHT
see the opportunity others' MISS!

Take a huge position: be patient
SIT real TIGHT
And wait for the price to double and triple and quadupple -

HS

Original paraphased from world famous trader Jesse Livermore
who screwed up and lost more fortunes than I can ever dream about....

:signs14:

Like old what's his name says:


NO NOT ANOTHER LEARNING experience!

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I think one is perfectly enough for me, although I agree this coin is one of the most beautiful coins I have owned.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I initially felt this way about the UHR, but there's enough gambler in me to consider selling off some Ag bullion to buy a couple more.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

How so? I know enough about numismatics to be barely dangerous, so I would value input on this matter.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

what other size besides 1oz was available?

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I still haven't seen one of these coins yet, and it's driving me crazy!

I can't justify the premium or the lack of originality in the design, but this coin does look quite extraordinary nonetheless. Can't wait to see one. :)

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I just think they've minted too many of them for them to ever be considered "rare".

True, it is an exceptionally beautiful coin, and a one year special design, But it is not rare.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I disagree. If, as some speculate, the mintage is capped at 120,000 coins, that's still a very low figure, and it's still a historic coin. Time will tell, but I'm banking on this coin's future being bright.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I own one, and I like it. But, I would definitely NOT trade bullion in to get another one. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I think the Au Buffalo is a better design, but not executed nearly as well as the UHR. Doing some thinking on this topic, I had the safe open today and looked at my 1908 AU Saint (heirloom) and compared it to my UHR, I hadn't looked at in in quite a while. Damn if I don't think that the old Saint is a "prettier" coin than the UHR!

YMMV.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I think the use of computer graphics packages to "enhance" the original design was a somewhat predictable mistake. In my opinion this has led to a "flawless" but blander rendering of the artists original vision. It looks a bit like a chocolate coin, a rather yummy one but still.
As for future value I think it will probably do well especially if the Chinese and others get into numismatics but the mintage is on the high side for my liking.
Just my 2p.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

You will want one if you ever get a chance to hold/fondle one

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Even with those old weathered hands, the coin looks nice.
Maybe we need a hand model for the next raw shot?

http://blackflash.ca/2/wp-content/up...andmodel-2.jpg

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

You'll never have to prove your courage to me again, handling a UHR with bare hands! I bet it felt really good!

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Yeah I agree - now that it's a MS68

I'll give you spot for it!

:111::wink::signs14:

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I sent my coin into PCGS, it came back MS70 "first strike". My hands may be leather, but I know how to use them...

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I stand CORRECTED: now may I congradulate YOU on a smart MOVE too?

:36_3_12::yes::ok:

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I just received my COIN WORLD weekly journal: and they had a front page story on the US MINT sales at the L.A., CA, ANA convention.

Seems that a few dealers were there paying about $60 over US mint price on a RE-BUY from the grab 10 US Citizens and sell to the wholesalers across the way.

One fellow BOUGHT 500 UHR from the citizens. 500! With a picture - I was salvating - envy - green - jealous - rubbing my PAWS - fangs sticking out - foaming at the mouth - JUST kidding........

$675,000.00 in cash! Now if I could beg borrow and steal I could come up with maybe $6,750.00 enough for FIVE!

Now I ask you what does he KNOW that I do not yet know - or what does he see? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...........

Now you know why I got my measly few, right?

:wink::4_8_4v::yes:



Perhaps, beware of the IDES of OCTOBER for the blackest TUESDAY in America - 1,500 DOW? I don't know - but I would not be surprised - I would not!

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

And why I bought my four too! :biggrin:

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Okay old buddy here's what I surmised.

If one bought say 100 to 500 and sent them INTO their favorite

SLABBER and slabbed them then: RESOLD them ebay or on-line he'd do OKAY.


Because -

He paid only $1,350 each for them so;

the MS70 sell for around $1,750 today and the MS69 sell for $1,425 ish.

All this way was a quick way for the wholesaler to break even on the MS69s or make around $350.00 each on the MS70s.

Simple math - now he may keep some for next year too, right?

:36_3_12:

Almost a make work project for a slow time - and the GIVERMINT assisted.

Dang I hate to see through these simple scams. Sorry.

The only funny thing is when the fellow dumps them ASAP and then they rise in value as the
PTB lose control of their "controlling the price" gold derrivatives and gold hits two or three grand.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

We're figuring pretty similar, and I am in no hurry to resell my extras........however, I am noticing, with all the MS 69s and 70s, what a sloppy job the Mint started doing midway.......

I got a very generous MS 68 on one from PCGS (I know there is another company but I can not remember their three letters! *lol*).......and I DO mean generous, I figured, when I saw it it was a MS 67! It was scuffed and even had a tool mark of some sort - actually looked more like a staple had gotten on it. ((I didn't see it before it went it because I left it in the sealed box from the Mint to increase both First Issue and MS 70 chances.......I got it in to them in time, but PCGS limited the number of First Issues they allowed.....First Issues are not a big deal to me but for re-sale, it helps, so why not?) After that, we decided to look before wasting any more money on grading, seeing as first issue was over anyway - no sense grading something thats obviously not going to make it.

My next two, while both should grade at MS 69, under the loop you can see a pit from something on the dye that progresses and increases in the next coin!

Then, and it was YOU, I think, who noticed, they cleaned the dyes and I took ONE MORE chance on this (cause this was the coin that, when I was about 12, sparked my interest in coins, I never forgot it) - and BANG! This last one certainly, even at first glance, seems the best.........I have, I am damn sure, an MS 70 for my fourth and final attempt - it is the one I will keep for life regardless of grade cause - well - its that much prettier.

((No doubt you have looked at yours under a loop - you almost have to to fully appreciate the artwork.))

But the Mint couldn't produce half the coins they were suppose to and, what they did do, was, in some instances, pretty damn sloppy!

SO, we shall see over the years what this coins produces - how many are really MS 70s and 69.....and how many couldn't make it out of the Mint whole! I have three I can sell down the road if I wish, or if the bullion runs out.........one I will keep till I die (Thursday) or am forced to sell.

And, as more collectors come in over the years - these coins will not incease in number..........so either way - I am happy!

OH - and one day gold will be so much more than $1400.......$1700..........or even $2400 that the current coin brings anyway.........*w*

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

And the way they Obama Treasury PRINTs the currency - it's a slam dunk that the prices will escalate. :36_3_12:

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/100-X-2009-Ultra...d=p3286.c0.m14

Here's a few for you..

:36_3_12::111:

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

whats with all this talk about some UHR's coming back from the TPG's with a PL designation?

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

I have an NGC *PROOF LIKE* UHR Early Release label:


KINDA COOL!

One of very few - too - really KOOL! Tee tee tee

but probably with two bucks I can go to STARBUCKS and get a cup of coffee..... to show it off to a fellow and his UNCARING dog.

:111::111:

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

is only ngc giving that out?

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Here we go again....

Effective August 31, 2009 at 12:00 noon (ET): The United States Mint will adjust the household order limit on the 2009 Ultra High Relief Double Eagle Gold Coin from a limit of ten (10) coins per household to twenty-five (25) coins per household. The household order limit will be re-evaluated on a regular basis and the United States Mint will either extend, adjust or remove the limit as needed.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Translation? Mint is sitting on a ton of these and needs them moved pronto?

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

From months waiting for delivery to 25 per household, I think over-minting is a definite possibility.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Perhaps the mint has focused too much of their production capacity onthis coin, to the detriment of the other products like fractionals and proofs. Tulving is now PAYING spot plus $400 for raw proof AU eagles in mint packaging.

My local coin dealer sold me 10 Oz of mint AU eagles for 5% over spot in March of 2008. At the time, he simply said, gold is gold, you want kruggerands or these proof coins in the mint boxes. My wife wanted the mint coins becuase they were "prettier" then the boring krugs...

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

So glad I didn't pull the trigger on one or two of these. When gold comes down, and it will come down, people will begin to balk at the premium paid on these.

Still a pretty coin, though.

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge
 

Re: Behind the 2009 UHR Double Eagle Sales Surge